Comments on: Is uTorrent disrupting the Net? http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/ Let's just see what happens Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:40:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Glasnost: Test if your ISP is manipulating BitTorrent traffic | Wyrdpress http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/comment-page-1/#comment-41107 Glasnost: Test if your ISP is manipulating BitTorrent traffic | Wyrdpress Sat, 14 Feb 2009 00:48:20 +0000 http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/#comment-41107 [...] Is uTorrent disrupting the Net? (hyperorg.com) [...] [...] Is uTorrent disrupting the Net? (hyperorg.com) [...]

]]> By: Richard Bennett http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/comment-page-1/#comment-39982 Richard Bennett Fri, 05 Dec 2008 22:15:03 +0000 http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/#comment-39982 You might enjoy my follow-up: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/05/richard_bennett_bittorrent_udp/ A lot of questions remain about the soundness of the BitTorrent approach. RB You might enjoy my follow-up:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2.....rrent_udp/

A lot of questions remain about the soundness of the BitTorrent approach.

RB

]]> By: uTorrent will flood the tubes, ohs noes! | Vault9 Blog http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/comment-page-1/#comment-39933 uTorrent will flood the tubes, ohs noes! | Vault9 Blog Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:18:39 +0000 http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/#comment-39933 [...] Is uTorrent disrupting the Net? [...] [...] Is uTorrent disrupting the Net? [...]

]]> By: Broadband Politics | Reaction to BitTorrent story http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/comment-page-1/#comment-39927 Broadband Politics | Reaction to BitTorrent story Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:20:21 +0000 http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/#comment-39927 [...] Slyck, DSLreports, TorrentFreak, Ars Technica, Icrontic, Joho the Blog and TMCnet, GigaOM, Industry Standard, [...] [...] Slyck, DSLreports, TorrentFreak, Ars Technica, Icrontic, Joho the Blog and TMCnet, GigaOM, Industry Standard, [...]

]]> By: Richard Bennett http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/comment-page-1/#comment-39923 Richard Bennett Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:23:13 +0000 http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/#comment-39923 UDP is generally used by applications who don't want or need TCP's retransmission strategy. These tend to be real-time applications like VoIP, but don't have to be. Sun invented a file access protocol called nfs back in the 80s that used UDP, but that's the only large-scale use of UDP on record for moving files. The folks at BT, Inc, seem to be most upset at my suggestion that they're changing their defaults because of the Canada situation, but that wasn't my original observation. They've implemented their own backoff over UDP because they've found that TCP backoff doesn't do much good for BT, which is something I've been saying for a long time without BT commenting one way or another. UDP is generally used by applications who don’t want or need TCP’s retransmission strategy. These tend to be real-time applications like VoIP, but don’t have to be. Sun invented a file access protocol called nfs back in the 80s that used UDP, but that’s the only large-scale use of UDP on record for moving files.

The folks at BT, Inc, seem to be most upset at my suggestion that they’re changing their defaults because of the Canada situation, but that wasn’t my original observation.

They’ve implemented their own backoff over UDP because they’ve found that TCP backoff doesn’t do much good for BT, which is something I’ve been saying for a long time without BT commenting one way or another.

]]> By: Thay Singh http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/comment-page-1/#comment-39912 Thay Singh Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:58:52 +0000 http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/#comment-39912 So here's the deal. UDP is for when you can lose data. Period. It actually has a lower theoretical throughput than a properly-configured TCP connection because each UDP packet must carry address information that TCP takes care of at connection setup time. It is probably easiest to think of UDP as sending emails, where TCP is like IM. Having said all that, there are several reasons why UDP could make sense for a BitTorent client at this time. 1) BT packets are not dependent on order and losses don't matter - this is *exactly* the kind of service UDP was designed for 2) TCP and UDP get treated differently by naively-configured (read home user) routers and firewalls 3) Backbone routers may provide different quality of service to UDP than for TCP Both of the last two reasons qualify as "gaming the system" - BT is trying to adapt it's protocol use to the current practices of the internet to provide people with good download performance. Internet routing practices will change as a result of this, and there will be another round. Net Neutrality (or the absence of it) is another aspect of this game, as is the public mud-slinging. The only real answer is to charge end-users on a data-volumetric basis, but given that there is so much dark fiber in the US (two years ago I was informed by a telecoms regulator that only about 15% of the current fiber capacity was in use) that would seem rather like a major money grab at this point. What BitTorrent *really* disrupts is the content-distribution industry. As long as companies like TimeWarner control the networks that are used to distribute their content, they will always have a conflict of interest in regulating traffic. This is what Net Neutrality is meant to address. A network provider needs to behave solely as a network provider, and not favor one customer's data stream over another (excepting explicit contractual agreements for specific levels of service). So here’s the deal. UDP is for when you can lose data. Period. It actually has a lower theoretical throughput than a properly-configured TCP connection because each UDP packet must carry address information that TCP takes care of at connection setup time. It is probably easiest to think of UDP as sending emails, where TCP is like IM.

Having said all that, there are several reasons why UDP could make sense for a BitTorent client at this time.

1) BT packets are not dependent on order and losses don’t matter – this is *exactly* the kind of service UDP was designed for

2) TCP and UDP get treated differently by naively-configured (read home user) routers and firewalls

3) Backbone routers may provide different quality of service to UDP than for TCP

Both of the last two reasons qualify as “gaming the system” – BT is trying to adapt it’s protocol use to the current practices of the internet to provide people with good download performance. Internet routing practices will change as a result of this, and there will be another round. Net Neutrality (or the absence of it) is another aspect of this game, as is the public mud-slinging. The only real answer is to charge end-users on a data-volumetric basis, but given that there is so much dark fiber in the US (two years ago I was informed by a telecoms regulator that only about 15% of the current fiber capacity was in use) that would seem rather like a major money grab at this point.

What BitTorrent *really* disrupts is the content-distribution industry. As long as companies like TimeWarner control the networks that are used to distribute their content, they will always have a conflict of interest in regulating traffic. This is what Net Neutrality is meant to address. A network provider needs to behave solely as a network provider, and not favor one customer’s data stream over another (excepting explicit contractual agreements for specific levels of service).

]]> By: joel flachs http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/comment-page-1/#comment-39899 joel flachs Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:21:54 +0000 http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2008/12/01/is-utorrent-disrupting-the-net/#comment-39899 hello david long time no talk. hope all is well. off to china. say hello if you wish. joel hello david long time no talk. hope all is well. off to china. say hello if you wish.

joel

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