Joho the Blog
An Entry from the Archives

The responsible parties in the military are already getting Court Martialed; that all started back in January. The only new information is the pictures. The system is working; your comments here are partisan hackery, nothing more.

We are all aware of the lengths people will go to to prevent their personal house of cards from collapsing. I think the Bush administration has never abandoned their WMD house of cards, and torturing prisoners demonstrates how far they are willing to go. There is no real apology because they don't feel this was too far to go.

I want to see the additional evidence. Rumsfeld said that there were worse pictures and videos, both that he has not seen and that he has been covering up.

The President should address the nation when these come out.

I suppose that they could let this drip out--at their loss, as it is campaign season. Talk about managing the news cycle...

is there any reason NOT to charge Rumsfeld & Co with war crimes?

I've come to the conclusion that we must reinstate the draft and end the mercenary contracting relationships and the reliance on reservists as core field personnel. Does this sound whack or what?

"We deal daily with the horrific handicraft of genocidaire, of torturers, of butchers, or of poorly trained soldiers who commit unjustified violence against civilians or abuse prisoners of war . . . At stake is not our freedom to conduct the just war justly, but the chance to save the lives of countless civilians and their means of shelter and livelihood from those whose pursuit of power knows no bounds. "
-- Ambassador David Scheffer,March 4, 1999
Blaine Sloan Lecture, Pace University

http://www.state.gov/www/global/swci/index.html

"For example, Articles 86 and 87 of Additional Protocol I embody the accepted principles for the responsibility of commanders and other superior military and civilian leaders. This principle is further articulated and clarified in Article 28 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. Commanders are responsible for the actions of their subordinates if they knew or should have known that units under their effective control are committing or are about to commit war crimes. Commanders have the legal obligation to take all reasonable steps to prevent war crimes or at minimum to initiate investigations into alleged war crimes. This articulation reflects the long-standing U.S. standard and has now been solidified in the body of international law."

http://www.state.gov/www/policy_remarks/2000/000504_scheffer_warlaw.html

"In late 1998, the ICTY, produced equally historic precedents in the Celebici, Furudzija, and Delalic cases. These judgments recognized rape as a violation of the Laws and Customs of War and as a basis of torture under the Geneva Conventions. The Trial Chamber of the ICTY held in Celebici that it "considers the rape of any person to be a despicable act which strikes at the core of human dignity and physical integrity." Furudzija was a watershed because it was the first case to consist exclusively of rape charges. The ICTY Trial Chamber in Delalic adopted the Akayesu definition of rape as a "physical invasion of a sexual nature, committed on a person under circumstances which are coercive." The judges of ICTY will soon hear evidence in the Konarac and Kovac cases that will be the first to allege sexual violence as a form of enslavement. Next year before the ICTR, will be the first ever case of a woman,..., being prosecuted for rape as an aider and abettor."

http://www.state.gov/www/policy_remarks/1999/991029_scheffer_ny_rape.html

http://www.state.gov/www/policy_remarks/2000/000918_scheffer_iraq.html

Interesting.

Pre-Bush

Way to weigh in, David. I could almost see the headlights self-organizing, straightenimng themselves out.

This situation speaks clearly to the deficiencies of traditional hierearchy, the ineffective leadership is systemic, and is bound up in the dynamics of a tree-like structure being shaken to the core by messy webs.

Pretty amazing, wasn't it - Rummy's attempt to blame this on digital cameras and the photographs from them being shared via the Internet, "unlawfully" as he put it.

Who'da thunk that would have been a possibility ?

i agree with everything the prison must be shut down..not destroyed but shut down so we have a reminder of what we are capable of....

Hmmm let me understand this right the Pentagon breaks the news story, is in the process of court martialling those involved and you call for Rumsfeld's resignation. I have to agree with the partisan hackery comment David, a shame because while I don't agree often with your political views I respect your balance and fairness. Which is gone on this issue.

To paraphrase another site 'Yeah Rumsfeld should resign like Janet Reno did after Waco. Oh wait she didn't.' I am not saying she should have, but by the same measure I don't think Rumsfeld should either.

(Damn! Lost what I wrote when IE froze. I hate when that happens! Why don't I get a damn Mac already?)

I don't know if Janet Reno should have resigned, so I'll leave that aside. And, yes, the Pentagon is now doing some right things about this. But only by firing Rumsfeld can we tell the world that we understand that this situation is a gross violation of what America stands for. We should not be perceived as taking a fair and balanced stance towards torture. So, if Rumsfeld has to fall on his sword, then so be it.

(You should get a Mac. Efficiency of procrastination goes up at least 10x.)

Janet Reno actually did offer to resign over Waco, and there was a public debate about whether her mistakes warranted such a drastic course of action. Clinton stood up for her by saying there were mistakes made, but that she operated within government guidelines when making her decision; the flaw was more deeply structured than the individual.

In Rumsfeld's case he has not offered to resign, and we have no indication that the problem is structural. Rules and regulations are in place to prevent the occurrences of Abu Ghuraib, rules and regulations which seem to have been by-passed. It is for the gross violation of American and international law that Rumsfeld is taking responsibility, not failure to perform a cover-up as he seems to believe. It is for those illegal acts that he should resign.

Rumsfeld new, he gave the orders, this govertment is sick, please read:
http://newyorker.com/printable/?fact/040524fa_fact

You folks attacking the writer look stupid after the latest revelations.

Just wondering if this Soldier, Spc. Robert Loria (Soldier who lost arm and Army wanted reimbursement at Ft Hood) was in one of those poorly armored Humvees and if his wounds couldn't have been avoided or lessened in the first place.
After hearing Rumsfeld's asinine remarks I am made to wonder if he is or ever was qualified for the job. You can bet one of his kids wouldn't be riding around over there in a vehicle without armor.

Please read news article> http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2004/12/10/abandon1.htm

OF LIFE AND LIMB

They take the oath to Serve us all
To protect this Land of the Free
Some signed for just the weekends
And a few weeks of the Military.

But when our Country went to "war"
Both Reserve and Regulars "shipped out"
And we at Home and Government
Should make sure they don’t go without.

They should have the best equipment
Especially all those in harm’s way
Their families should be taken care of
And they should get some decent pay.

When our Troops asked for basic armor
And we all know the "wheels" turn slow
But those lame excuses have cost lives
And many more wounded, don’t "they" know?

Of those billions we are spending
How much goes to Halliburton
Instead of where it’s really needed
To help keep those Soldiers from hurtin’.

And when they do get wounded
(Luckier than those who are killed)
They should expect and receive the best
And have all the promises fulfilled.

But the military/civilian bureaucrats
In the Department of Defense
Don’t care about the lowly Soldier
At the "bottom line" of the expense.

When Troops are no longer useful
"They" want to hurry, close the "deal"
You don’t see "them" extend their "tour"
To Soldiers laid up somewhere to heal.

Expendable expenditures
And just a cost of every "war"
So, sign ‘em up and ship ‘em out
Then go out and sign up more.

We can’t expect our Fighting Men
To stand up to Wartime’s test
Unless we send them off to war
With all the very, very, best.

Some wars have been to protect us
And some were fought for Liberty
But we can’t force onto others
What Freedom means to you and me.

But, if the powers that lead us
Keep thinking it is worth the cost
They should "realize" the price
Of all, those families have lost.

Del "Abe" Jones
12-13-2004

More about Halliburton than they probably want you to know> http://www.harpers.org/Halliburton.html#20040113-652119958634

Since the time that this article was written, even more details have come out about the torture done by the Bush Administration. It now looks like FBI documents show that George W. Bush himself issued a direct executive order for agents of the American government to torture prisoners.

Impeach Rumsfeld, yes. Impeach Bush, yes. But, I say go further. Imprison Bush.