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May 27, 2004

Five years of Cluetrain

Giles Turnbull writes in The Guardian on how that Cluetrain stuff worked out now that it's been five years since the site went up. Good article.

I'm always a bit awkward talking about Cluetrain. I think it was basically right about the value of the Net at a time when the media and most businesses were (IMO) insistently wrong. But, for example, the other day at a conference someone very sweetly thanked me, crediting Cluetrain as the inspiration for the company he'd founded. That's great to hear, but it also invokes my Flight or Polite instinct. Cluetrain tried to articulate ideas that were just below the surface (and occasionally above the surface) in the Web community, but now the co-authors sometimes get credit for the ideas.

Also, I don't like reading what I write. That explains why at the end of The Guardian article I'm quoted as saying that I don't remember what was in the book. Of course I don't! Do you think authors sit around rereading their books? My books terrify me because I know they contain wrong ideas and passages that read like sandpaper, yet they're still out there for anyone to read. (And then I read someone like Steve Johnson and think I should just give up entirely. Sigh.)

Posted by D. Weinberger at May 27, 2004 07:58 PM


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» Congrats to David, Doc, Rageboy and Rick from Marc's Voice
Five years of Cluetrain . [Read More]

Tracked on May 28, 2004 02:01 AM

» Policy Entrepreneur from Ascription is an anathema to any enthusiasm
I've been thinking about roles in the market of ideas. Three roles: those that make ideas, those that consume them, but most importantly the idea middlemen. I'm reasonably sure it was one of Paul Krugman early books that introduced me to the idea of t... [Read More]

Tracked on May 28, 2004 09:18 AM

» Is it really five years since cluetrain? from Headshift
Is the cluetrain manifesto really five years old? It doesn't seem so... [Read More]

Tracked on May 31, 2004 09:27 PM

» Are some blogs offensive? from Thinking Out Loud: Thought Leadership from an Enterprise Architect
Before you read any further, I ask that you stop what you are doing and read the Cluetrain Manifesto and then come back to this page. I have obtained wisdom from many blogs (too numerous to list here, but have... [Read More]

Tracked on May 16, 2005 08:56 PM

Comments

Well, we readers still like to read it. And the wonderful thing about a book or a site is that it just sits there, waiting to be discovered anew.

I had friends send me links to the ClueTrain site years ago, but never followed up on it. Then I heard you speak a couple of years ago, liked your sensibility, started reading your blog, then read the manifesto and greatly enjoyed it.

So thanks.

Posted by: Tim | May 28, 2004 01:06 AM


Don't you ever dare to give up writing! :-))
Just read your very insightful "small pieces..." with great (intellectual) pleasure.

Posted by: Markus Pirchner | May 28, 2004 01:25 AM


I think writers tend to be among the most self-deprecating folks around. Cluetrain was quite possibly the most useful business book I had ever read. I devoured it at the time, and gave copies to co-workers -- I shoved it in their hands, insisting "you've gotta read this!" It is a book that would make any parent proud. Have a wonderful weekend.

Posted by: Jason Black | May 28, 2004 09:17 AM


Thank you, but I didn't mean my post to prompt people to say nice things. So, please, no more!

And maybe it'd help to know that I've been working on a book proposal for 18+ months. Yes, a proposal, not a book. I know what I want to talk about and even much of what I want to say, but I can't figure out how to present it in a way that readers will care about. So, I'm a tad frustrated and even a little depressed and that probably seeped into this blog entry.

Posted by: David Weinberger | May 28, 2004 09:27 AM


I agree that Steven Johnson is dauntingly intelligent and articulate.

But don't sell yourself short, David. You're kinda sharp and clear yourself.

Posted by: Jon Husband | May 28, 2004 04:24 PM


Hey David - I can understand your discomfort being characterized as "authoring" the ideas that became Cluetrain. It doesn't diminish the importance of the book to say that you and your co-conspirators were really "reporting" on what you saw (largely) under the surface. Ultimately though, the really important thing is that you guys were able to articulate ideas/concepts underlying the rise of the Net that are profoundly important and have a timeless quality. Some are so simple they are hard. But once understood, they demand reexamination of virtually every aspect of doing business. The most powerful, in my opinion being manifesto point #1: "Markets Are Conversations".

For a number of years before I bought the book, and heard you guys speak in DC and CA, I had a growing awareness of important changes underway and I struggled to express what I sensed. In this way, it is safe to say that some of us were aware of the meaning of manifesto point #1 long before the ink hit the pages. I just wasn't able to express it so elegantly, and in only three words...

I know you said "no more", but... I just have to join with the others and say thank you.

Posted by: Terry Pittman | June 4, 2004 09:04 PM


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