Joho the Blog
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March 27, 2005
Gene Smith has posted a helpful diagram from his IA Summit Panel presentation: You get folksonomies when people are tagging stuff — whether it's their own or other's — in public. Thomas Vander Wal, who coined the term "folksonomy," I think would label the X axis [Mnemonic: X is a-cross] differently. In his post on broad and narrow folksonomies, he defines a broad folksonomy as one that "has many people tagging the same object and every person can tag the object with their own tags" (= del.icio.us). A narrow taxonomy has fewer people tagging and there is only one of each tag applied (= flickr). The latter clause is the important one. At del.icio.us, 100 people could upload the same bookmark (= URL) and tag it. At flickr, generally only the person who took a photo is going to upload it, and even if two people upload the identical photo, flickr counts them as a separate. So, at del.icio.us, if 50 people have tagged a bookmark as "SF," you may nevertheless decide to become the 51st, because that's how you want to remember that URL. That there are now 51 "SF" tags is important information that could be used to create a folksonomy. At flickr, if you come across a photo of the Golden Gate bridge that is already tagged "SF," and that's how you want to remember it, you won't add a "SF" tag because the photo already has that tag. Thus, flickr doesn't know how many people find the "SF" tag useful for any particular photo. (Flickr can know that overall at flickr there are lots more "SF" tags than "San Francisco" tags; the folksonomy happens one level up.) So, if I understand Thomas, a broad taxonomy is really one in which an object can have multiple instances of the same tag, whereas in a narrow taxonomy, an object can only have one instance of each tag. I wrote to Thomas and asked him how he would jigger Gene's diagram, and he replied:
Or we could replace the X axis with Narrow to Broad folksonomy, which would move flickr to the left and del.icio.us to the right. So, now all we need is a n-dimensional matrix to accommodate all these damn quadrants. Plus, I need a brain that understands spatial relationships. Posted
by D. Weinberger at March 27, 2005 01:56 PM
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Comments
Consumerpedia has a unique hierarchical tagging system. See the About and Help sections at Consumerpedia.org
Posted by: B Gates | March 28, 2005 01:57 AM
So where are Amazon's Statistically Improbable Phrases in your chart? I thought you said you were going to rip me off on that score. David, David, can't I count on you for ANYTHING anymore.
-Mom
Posted by: RB | March 28, 2005 05:14 AM
>I need a brain that understands spatial relationships.
here, wrap your head around this...
http://bubl.ac.uk/link/i/internetresourcediscovery.htm
...then take two hits of windowpane and call me in the morning.
this entirely gratuitous all-noise-all-the-time comment may have been wrongfully influenced by listening to Terrence McKenna talk to Art Bell for the last two hours. as McKenna is dead, this is extra unusual. you can also have this experience [but why?] by searching for either individual's name on the page www.media-underground.net/media.htm
Wikipedia sez:
"Novelty Theory was an idea conceived and promoted by Terence McKenna from the late 1960s until his death in the year 2000. Novelty Theory is a form of eschatology. It has similarities with the apocalyptic world view of many modern Christianities.
McKenna claimed that his theory, while inspired by a revelation psychically-transmitted from an alien insect intelligence, while he was under the influence of hallucinogenic plant compounds, had a firm mathematical basis. Part end-times prophecy, part fractal mathematics, it was based on his interpretation of hidden numeric hierarchies in the I Ching..."
I think this is somehow related to your grafik. must be, don't you think?
RB
alien insect intelligence
Posted by: RB | March 28, 2005 06:07 AM
I used the tagging for self and tagging for others as the folksonomy is the result of tagging for one's self. If I want to come back to something I will want to apply a tag that means something to myself. If I am tagging for others I am going to apply tags that I think will fit into others perceptions, or at least as I see others perceiving them.
The thought processes seem to be rather different when choosing terms. People are more loose with their tagging when choosing for themselves (they understand to their own associative processes). People think more about what is being communicated when they are tagging for others. Those trying to subvert the process understand this distinction well, as people will try to be subvert others processes, but rarely will they try to subvert their own tools they find of value. Those not intending to subvert the process seem to think along similar lines as they pay more attention to tools they use for themselves and find value.
This line of distinction are part of what I used to draw the narrow and broad folksonomy differences upon. I had initially had a third category, non-folksonomy for those tools that focus on purely tagging for others. I had put, Technorati tags in that last category as it seems that it was only tagging for others (I am easing off that understanding as it seems there is some element of tagging for one's self in there as well).
Posted by: vanderwal | March 28, 2005 08:40 AM
Oy, RB's right. Where do computer-generated tags go on this chart?
And vanderwal, I agree about Technorati tags since technorati takes blog categorizations as tags, and people may categorize their own entries for themselves and/or for others. Likewise, people may be using technorati's "tag=" addition so others can find stuff or so that they can find their own stuff.
It's only been five minutes since tags have caught on, and already they're too confusing! To which I say: Excellent!
As for your comment, RB, about McKenna's theories, I'll reply once I've cleared it with the Overlords.
Posted by: David Weinberger | March 28, 2005 09:00 AM
I have just implemented a folksonomy, it is still pretty much in its infancy and potentially buggy, however if anyone wants to try it, it is at http://www.bigblogzoo.com.
You use the tree to navigate to one of the blogs or feeds and then you press 'animalise me', which brings you to the tagging algorithmn.
If anyone has any comments I would be very interested to hear them:
http://www.syndicatescape.com/bigblogzoo/
Posted by: kent | June 15, 2005 08:36 PM
Great job Kent! I really like the nav you have on the site. The "Anamlise Me" feature seems to work great.
Posted by: Metallica Poster Girl | August 6, 2005 08:05 PM
It's only been five minutes since tags have caught on, and already they're too confusing! To which I say: Excellent!
Posted by: programlar.org | January 18, 2006 02:32 PM
You use the tree to navigate to one of the blogs or feeds and then you press 'animalise me', which brings you to the tagging algorithmn.
Posted by: http://trlist.gen.tr | January 20, 2006 06:57 PM
We at Surrealstudio of Seattle have posted a couple video clips of Terence McKenna on YouTube.com and Video.Google.com_
We also have the complete 1hour,26min DVD for sale on eBay.(on eBay search terence mckenna seattle).
Duff Hendrickson
Seattle
Posted by: Duff | July 31, 2006 04:54 AM
I wonder if only geeks get invitations to all these summits
Posted by: summitfrom | April 18, 2007 03:25 PM
This thread in great. Could anyone tell me whether there are any other Forums on this topic?
free software
Posted by: HONOR | May 15, 2007 01:13 AM